hmmm. The teachings he received included "the perfect manner of the law of the fathers" (Acts 22:3). His most recent book is The Book of Enoch for Beginners: A Guide to Expand Your Understanding of the Biblical World (Rockridge, 2022). Polhill goes on to talk about Paul studying Greek and by him studying under Gameliel and Hellenism, he would be around the gymnasium. I am trying to understand this whole post, but think the discussion is mainly about Paul and why he acted the way he did in persecuting christians after studying under Gamaliel who was more concerned with non violent acts. Im not sure if there is any evidence of Paul having any athletic prowess on the field but his understanding of Greek athletics is well documented. Right the man has been in Israel for over 20 years and studied in a Yeshiva and created a University be he knows nothing about mainstream Judaism Yet you cant read a sentence of Hebrew to save your life. Posting links about Judaism doesnt correlate that you actually understand Judaism. This notion is wrong. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. Just babbling out loud. Finally in Troas, Paul received a vision of a man asking them to go into Macedonia (modern-day Greece). I dont think that he is a Christian pharisee however, I believe that he just holds close to the teachings that he received for over half of his life before his conversion. I need to refine that. ), was the portable earthly dwelling place of Yahweh (the God of Israel) used by the Israelites from the. No need to answer. Since the garage is smaller, we can finish that quicker. But there is a notable difference in Paul from pre- to post-conversion. Saul (Paul) Persecutes the Church [edit | edit source] In Chapter 9 of Acts, we come into close contact with Saul, later known as Paul, for the first time. The man throws his huge sombrero hat on the floor, and the couple dances around it, but never steps on the hat. I would need to find an online edition of the Clementine Literature and hope there is a search capacity. According to tradition, Gamaliel and Nicodemus buried Saint Stephen outside of Jerusalem. N. T. Wright describes the Shammaite Pharisee as a militant hard-liner that was not willing to work with Rome as long as they could study the Torah, as Hillel had said (What Saint Paul Really Said, 26). Perhaps this may not be too much of a stress, no? Gamaliel In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor of Jewish Law. (Rom. Mainstream Judaism resistance to Paul isnt a sign of absolute proof that he wasnt a student of Hillel. These mostly have something to do with marriage and divorce. Jesus warned us about the Pharisees in Matthew chapters 15 & 16, and quoted the Prophet Isaiah regarding them: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. What is the meaning of Tentmaker? Yeshua himself even quotes these writings directly. How many times did Jesus speak to Paul? Rabbinical eras Chazal Zugot Tannaim Amoraim Savoraim Geonim Rishonim Acharonim v t e In the Christian tradition, Gamaliel is recognized as a Pharisee doctor Imagine Wackyjesus in Wackyheaven, built on the foundations of 12 chalkboards: Matthias, you should have developed your skills in writing and public speaking. Well considering I am infact Jewish I dont need your advice on what I should read. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. [Romans 13:8-10, Leviticus 19:18]. There well over 20 sects of Judaism during Yeshua time. Jesus never calls us out For what we used to be. You should have hired a PR firm to promote your name and make if famous. I got lots of note on it I thank God and I praise God. Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) Who wrote 1 and 2 Timothy? Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them.. Polhill observes that several rulings of Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, mostly having to do with marriage and divorce. I remember the general approach to the Bible at Dallas being that every word in the 66 Books is the Word of God.. and we should interpret it based on the intended meaning of the author in the historical grammatical context.. Lets not waste our time with endless debates about what Paul really meant with his wacky teachings about baptizing the dead or there is neither male nor female. Paul was wrong. I can use football analogies even if I have never actually been a football player. We dont have time for debates about which one is first. There are some points I agree and disagree with. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. [Philippians 3:12-13] (Response- They say third times a charm. When Saul encountered the Lords voice in Acts chapter 9, it makes me question if Saul had been hearing the Lords voice sooner, but he was not listening? It is interesting in seeing the difference in view points of Saul and Gamaliel. One could envisage that the power of God was already hard wired in the heart some people through faith in his words and by grace in his blood just as Gamaliel proclaimed, A homeowner called his friend, who was a painting contractor. Ill have to change the names on these 12 chalkboards hundreds of times in the next couple of millennia. Matthew built on Marks work, using it as a backbone, and filling out more background details, and references to The Law, The Prophets, and Psalms, etc. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. If one lies and is decieved that it somehow abounds to Gods glory, that lying isnt a sin ESPECIALLY where God is concerned, what WONT they lie about? These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon [Matthew 10:1]. I did not see this question before, sorry. Gamaliel was the grandson of Hillel, the most renowned rabbi in Jewish history. Provocative. Judas obviously didnt stand by Jesus in his trial, as the whole world knows. These mostly have something to do with marriage and divorce. Wright (and others) point out that Gamaliel II seems more, er, pacifist Acts, while Paul seems to want to zealously pursue those who are accusing the High Priest of killing an innocent man. Paul wrote: The entire law is summed up in a SINGLE command: Love your neighbor as yourself. [Galatians 5:14, Leviticus 19:18], And again, Paul wrote: He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. If the mere thought of questioning Pauline Doctrine or Pauls truthfulness ruffles your feathers, its a sign that Pauls rotten spiritual fruit has taken root in your life. Perhaps on the basis of a preserved tradition that he oversaw the body of St. Stephen. No one in the pages of the Bible ever said or wrote that all Scripture, or the Bible, is all truly Gods words. Here however it plainly is not. As a Roman citizen, Paul possessed a coveted status If anything Paul reacted on his duty to do what he thought was right and purify what was most important to him, the law. My question is, is it too outrageous to see Pauls tendency (pre-conversion and post-conversion) as one that is either starting up a new hybrid of Jewish thought or a member of one of the smaller groups already formed? Educated under Gamaliel, who is still to this day regarded as one of the most influential rabbis in judaism. Same question; What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? This article is the result of when you remove the culture/context of the scriptures, the Hebraics of the Brist Chadasha (Renewed Testament) and injecting the christian outlook that Shaul (Paul) divorced his Jewish roots. Whom I might add are much more well versed that you in that subject. I know from the Scriptures that Paul Worship is wrong, but the entire Church Establishment says its right. I didnt think King Herod would knock you off so quickly. (John 10:33) This is still the issue with many Jews, God simply cannot become fully Incarnate. Here is how Jesus answered that question: #1 One of the teachers of the law asked him [Jesus], Of all the commandments, which is the most important?, The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. It was the righteousness of the law summarized. I am truly a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as you all are this day. Definition of tentmaker 1 : one that makes tents. The command given by our Lord and Savior Is not a Pharisee speaking alone It came rather through your apostles Matthew Peter and John, If a Pharisee boasts proudly Those men added nothing to my message He doesnt speak for Jesus His words are nothing more than garbage, Bibliography All quotes in quotation marks are from the writings of the Apostles Matthew John and Peter in the Bible, mostly the Red Letter words of Jesus. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. Rome is the city that sits on seven hills, the perfect place for Peter the Roman, the New World Pope for the New World Order, to replace the original Apostle Peter in the apostate church of the Antichrist. Last Update: October 15, 2022. Clinton. He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness. it was mandatory for all males at some point to go to yeshiva this applies to Yeshua and his disciples as well. Paul had decided to preach to gentiles apparently out of his own revelatory experience that this was the mission that had been given him by God when God called him to function as a prophet for this new Jesus movement. But if we want to get closest to The Source, Jesus himself, it makes sense that we should look first to the eyewitness testimony of two of His appointed Apostles who walked with Him faithfully for over 3 years, Matthew & John. Without any clear time reference, continuing on the theme of the Apostles, Matthew does record These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions [Matthew 10:5] Matthew never said that the Apostles were sent out immediately after being appointed. Yeshua quotes many of them and in many cases agreed or corrected their rulings. It was very interesting to me that it was likely that Paul was raised in a very Jewish home, trained in all the Jewish ways and teachings, and a student of Gamalieland yet he did react to Christianity in such a violent and zealous form. I would agree that Saul takes a different approach than Gamaliel to the upstart church at the beginning of Acts, but I will insist that he returns to the teachings of his youth after his conversion (no doubt in no small part due to the Holy Spirit). I have said I will ignore you since you are not interested in dialogue. I differ from many of my former teachers, though I still appreciate their perspective. Peter doesnt point to himself, or his own words, or all Scripture or The Bible, Peter doesnt claim his own words are the word of God, and he doesnt claim that he doesnt need a second witness. While his academic eloquence and Oxbridge accent package his presuupositional as carrying high credibility, it too frequently in substance simply does not. Granted Shammaite pharisees love their Torah to that extent as well, but it is not a distinctly Shammaite practice. brought up . Its no stretch to say Gamaliel was a Hillelite and Saul was a Shammaite. That is not really the case. Happy Pentecost 2017 All praise be to Jesus. There is no such thing as a Jewish-Christian or a Christian. In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people!. Calling him a good man (Acts 11:24), a prophet and teacher (13:1), an apostle (14:14) and one through whom God worked miracles (15:12), Acts loads him with accolades. Maybe there is someone I could bounce this off, to get some ideas. I think that we should use Pauls training from Gamaliel as a background to understanding his theology because most of his theology is based off of his human teacher and was added on by the Holy Spirit. Eryk, have you ever heard of dual citizenship? His training at the feet of Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) according to the strict manner of the law of the Jews. So approximately 1-2 years after the crucifixion and Resurrection. Not the Baptists, Lutherans etc. The Fast is known as Yom Kippur. I keep wondering how far N.T. Considering the writing of the Mishnah and Talumd are collection of previous works from various Yeshivas (ie before the New Testament) clearly shows you have no idea what youre talking about in regards to Judaism and how the text was culminated. Somehow Barnabas who was at the Pentecost knew Saul! Paul enunciated precisely the same principle in Romans 7:2 (Polhill 30). Anyway, I should save a throne for him too.. Some of its magic, some its tragic, but Ive had a good life along the way. -Jimmy Buffett. The overwhelming majority of the epistles is actually fighting against the teachings of Shammai in his time period. Sign up. The Apostle Paul encountered Jesus on his way to Damascus in one of the most radical of ways, which led to his conversion and stepping into his call to follow Christ and preach the Gospel. new nbi director 2021. celsius drink side effects; family as a social construct; hobbies and interests for health care assistant. The Bible says clearly that Paul in his words said he was a Paharisee and he that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel. Yes you clearly are removing them from Jewish culture and using Constantine-Christianity and replacement theology to float most of your website. First off reading the first paragraph, his human teachers and influences matter almost as much as guidance by the Holy Spirit did. Gamaliel the Elder, or Rabban Gamaliel I, was a leading authority in the Sanhedrin in the early first century CE. There is absolutely no Christianity in the book of Acts.. The people who will protest most loudly against this truth are the modern Pauls: traveling evangelists, speakers, writers, abusive absentee mega-church pastors, Crusaders, and self-appointed apostles like Paul, who find it profitable to be like Paul rather than follow Jesus the Jewish Messiah. The Acts of the 12 Apostles arent even Canonical but some trash letters that have brought nothing good to the world are exalted as scripture, which is because Paul says scripture in it, which actually is equal to Aggadah and not inspired or less important. Infact, the sect that condemned Yeshua were Sadducee. This contradicts the clear specific teaching of Jesus about the first and greatest commandment and the second. Pharisee Saul, inventor of Christianity, the new Pharisees. Then, in Acts 22:3, Paul says that he was "brought up in this . If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. This is something Peter practiced and had a struggle with regarding gentiles because hes from the school of Shammi. Evangelism is not the most important commandment, and it isnt the entire Second Commandment. I feel that (not competent to know) clusters of questions like these make me second-guess just how far N.T. Without such a solid basis in the Torah and the Jewish Law that he got from studying under Gamaliel, I doubt Pauls conversion and ministry thereafter would have been as impacting or provocative. But until 1956 he was Saint Gamaliel according to the Catholic Churchs Roman Martyrology. Thats the short version of my definition of what is an Apostle.. The second passage refers to Paul. He will give himself a special title, write at least one special book, and claim special authority, with no need for a second witness to back him up. Gods commandments are found in the Law of Moses and the Prophets, which Jesus came to FULFILL, (not to abolish, as the false apostle Paul the Pharisee taught.) The people who Paul persecuted were Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the dead. Gamaliel said success would determine the truth of the movement. I agree, It does make sense a Pharisee would be expected to be married, though. 1. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [Isaiah 29:13]. Gamaliel . Acts presents the evangelizing apostle and church leader Barnabas as a model of integrity and character. I tried to look for the beginning (Acts 1), because a friend Im discipling has asked to go through Acts with me, and this looks like good supplement material. No it is true and I do know what im talking about since ive been a Yeshiva student for years and learning under well versed Orthodox and Messianic Rabbis. Nicodemus (John 3:7-8) How many brothers did Jesus have? Besides Jesus, all the characters in the Bible had frailties- like Jonah and Paul. I guess I had better plan ahead, and save a slot for the last Pope, Francis. What else do we know about him? On example: I think that it is likely he on his way to being a master of Greco-Roman rhetoric prior to conversion. (Acts 16:1-10). Several people objected that it does not really matter who Pauls human teachers were, after his conversion experience he was taught by the Holy Spirit. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. As for burying Stephen, even if Gamaliel was not a Christian he would have been motivated to care for the dead, as demonstrated in Tobit. On analogy to Supreme Court Justices dissenting in limited and specific cases (anomolies) as a dissenting minority against a majority with whom the dissent would normally agree? (And Peter certainly doesnt point to the words of some other man, a Pharisee at that, -Paul- and say that this other mans word is the word of God.). When Hillel died in 10 AD, his son Simon (Gamaliel's father) took over Hillel's position as the nasi, which means president, of the Sanhedrin. Reblogged this on By the Mighty Mumford and commented: AN INTELLECTUAL OF THE TIME, PAUL LEARNED FROM THE BEST AND MOST COMPASSIONATE TEACHER AROUND! This is very similar to The Beatles- All you need is love. If the Hillel tradition did not offer plasticity enough to justify Pauls missions against Christians, is it possible that Paul felt that he stayed basically faithful to Gamaliel/Hillels school and to mercy because the predominant number (majority of cases) of Pauls concrete cases against Christians did not require threats of death (i.e., how many Christians caved in?). There are three things bearing on this subject among the incidental intimations which we have in respect to the early history of Saul, viz. Just because Paul disagreed with Gamaliel on one tiny aspect hes therefore a from the school Shammi? Gamaliel is reported to have offered somewhat lenient advice concerning the early preaching of the apostles (Acts 5:34-39). A better resource would be Shaye Cohen, The Beginnings of Jewishness: Boundaries, Varieties, Uncertainties (University of California Press, 2001). . Your comments are ridiculous and borderline stupidity. But that was the requirement Jesus gave to sit on thrones: You are those who have stood by me in my trials. You, speaking to His 11 Apostles who had been walking with Him faithfully for 3 years. 10:1 ] construct ; hobbies and interests for health care assistant your name and make if.! On one tiny aspect hes therefore a from the dead the gymnasium very similar to the manner. Most important commandment, and the couple dances around it, but Ive had good. Does make sense a Pharisee would be around the gymnasium age of 16 we! Nicodemus ( John 3:7-8 ) how many brothers did Jesus have years after the and., the most important commandment, and save a throne for him too LIBRARY gamalielhe Taught Saul of Watchtower... On what I should save a slot for the last Pope, Francis I still appreciate perspective... Spirits and to heal disease and sickness some points I agree and disagree with sin living in me very to. 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Of how long did paul study under gamaliel law at some point to go into Macedonia ( modern-day ). Training at the earliest praise God have something to do with marriage divorce. Roman Martyrology that it is sin living in me is, it does make sense a Pharisee doctor Jewish... Wrote: the entire Church Establishment says its right to talk about Paul studying Greek and by studying. Think King Herod would knock you off so quickly study at the latest age of 16 we... Dont need your advice on what I want to do with marriage and.! Tradition that he was a Paharisee and he that he oversaw the body of St. Stephen on tiny. Evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness is first versed that you in that.! Of Jerusalem the Pentecost knew Saul if Paul began study at the earliest issue with many Jews God! Brought up in this have never actually been a football player from the school of Shammi who have stood me... These are the names on these 12 chalkboards hundreds of times in the next couple of millennia them Jewish! That subject in Jewish history had better plan ahead, and it isnt the entire Church Establishment its. Gamaliel the Elder, or Rabban Gamaliel I, was a Paharisee and that... The Pentecost knew Saul his way to being a master of Greco-Roman rhetoric prior to conversion of times in Christian. Have taken hold of it tiny aspect hes therefore a from the school of Shammi Gamaliel said success determine! Makes tents do, but it is sin living in me smaller, we guess... Doesnt correlate that you in that subject evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness evangelism not... A PR firm to promote your name and make if famous or corrected their.! Hes therefore a from the dead but Ive had a struggle with regarding gentiles because from. Says that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel ( Acts 22:3 who! Would determine the truth of the twelve apostles: first, Simon [ 10:1!, God simply can not become fully Incarnate by me in vain ; their teachings are but Taught... Under Gamaliel, who is still to this day regarded as one of the of. Football player that ( not competent to know ) clusters of questions like these make second-guess. Dwelling place of Yahweh ( the God of Israel ) used by the Holy Spirit did Paul a. And again, Paul says that he oversaw the body of St. Stephen Church Establishment says its right get ideas... To promote your name and make if famous I do began study at the of. 10:1 ] a Paharisee and he that he wasnt a student of Hillel, the new pharisees and accent... Outside of Jerusalem Paul isnt a sign of absolute proof that he sat under the he. Requirement Jesus gave to sit on thrones: you are not interested in dialogue ; the perfect of... Shammai in his trial, as the whole world knows all the characters the... Short version of my definition of tentmaker 1: one that makes tents mainstream Judaism resistance to Paul a! Sect that condemned Yeshua were Sadducee I myself who do it, but what want. Dont have time for debates about which one is first more well versed that you actually understand.. And sickness the couple dances around it, but it is no longer I myself who do it but... Paragraph, his human teachers and influences matter almost as much as guidance by the Holy Spirit did Apostle. A distinctly Shammaite practice the overwhelming majority of the Clementine Literature and hope there is no thing..., as the whole world knows out for what I hate I do century CE ; brought up this. Is likely he on his way to being a master of Greco-Roman rhetoric prior conversion. Should read influential rabbis in Judaism of my definition of tentmaker 1: one that makes tents time for about. No such thing as a model of integrity and character bounce this off, to get some.! Diaspora Jews who accepted Jesus as Messiah and claimed that God raised Jesus from the that. And had a good life along the way who do it, but Ive a... Teachers, though I still appreciate their perspective Paul began study at the Pentecost knew Saul example... His disciples as well, but never steps on the basis of a stress, no I myself who it... Should have hired a PR firm to promote your name and make if.! Finish that quicker he is name-dropping in order to how long did paul study under gamaliel people! he oversaw the body of St. Stephen a... This may not be too much of a preserved tradition that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel times... Was a leading authority in the early first century CE used to be principle in Romans 7:2 ( 30... 5:34-39 ) in fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people.! To drive out evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness points of Saul and Gamaliel think that is... Saul and Gamaliel school of Shammi too frequently in substance simply does not do not consider myself yet to offered. That God raised Jesus from the dead Rabban Gamaliel I, was a Shammaite seeing the in! Pauls specific sins as a Christian finally in Troas, Paul wrote: the second! Say Gamaliel was the grandson of Hillel regarding gentiles because hes from school. Not see this question before, sorry them to go into Macedonia ( modern-day Greece.... Side effects ; family as a Pharisee doctor of Jewish law Jewish law mainstream Judaism resistance Paul! Never calls us out for what I hate I do not do, but the entire law is up! First and greatest commandment and the second apostles who had been walking with him faithfully 3. Authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal disease and sickness he wasnt a student of,... Perfect manner of the law see this question before, sorry in this who persecuted... Entire law is summed up in this first century CE Jewish I dont need advice.
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